Ryan Grant Little: 0:42

Welcome to Another Climate Tech Podcast conversations with the people trying to save us from ourselves. In this episode, I spoke with with Manca Jurca, at Climate Partner here in Vienna. Going back to 2006, Climate Partner is one of the pioneers in helping companies go carbon-neutral. We talked about how companies can get started, some best practices for climate communication and why bogs are the best. I'm Ryan Grant Little. Thanks for being here. Manca, welcome to the podcast.

Manca Jurca: 1:11

Thanks, Ryan.

Ryan Grant Little: 1:14

Climate Partner has more than 6,000 customers in 60 countries, so you're a big company and you're all over the place. You're based in Vienna, you're from Slovenia originally and you're working with clients in Central and Eastern Europe. What does Climate Partner do for these 6,000 customers? What problem is it solving?

Manca Jurca: 1:34

Well, that's hard to answer in just one sentence, but the name already tells you Climate Partner.

Manca Jurca: 1:40

It's going to have something to do with the climate. So basically, what we do as a company is we help corporate companies take climate action. So the idea behind this is we are not set on just letting the politics do its job, because sometimes, as we have seen, unfortunately, that doesn't happen. Maybe the mills sometimes are just too slow, especially on a global level. So what we do is we really encourage then the companies to really proactively start looking at their CO2 emissions and, of course, reducing their CO2 emissions with the help of different solutions, so that we can, with the help of companies, fill that gap that we currently have between our ambition levels and between where we are right now. So I work mostly with companies actually in Austria, and now we have really started kind of to expand also proactively in Eastern Europe, especially since I come from Slovenia. We have had quite some Slovenian companies already jump on board. Then we really see a lot of motivation in this area that somehow has been a little bit left behind by many companies in our business.

Ryan Grant Little: 2:49

So in countries I'm thinking like larger Eastern European countries like Poland, is this becoming a topic? Is this more and more at the center of corporate decision making?

Manca Jurca: 2:58

I believe so. I definitely believe so. You know, globally, no one can ignore this issue anymore. If someone is still trying to do that, then they.

Ryan Grant Little: 3:08

There's a lot of people who are still trying to ignore it.

Manca Jurca: 3:12

You know, of course they're going to grab the last straw to keep their businesses running. We don't have to talk about who that is, but of course yes. But I would say for most of people capable not only of critical thinking but also just looking around ourselves really can understand that we have entered a new era where nature is going to start to dictate a bit differently than it has so far because we've just ruined so many systems. So, of course, for corporates, there's one level of just kind of the intrinsic motivation that they have because they see what's happening around us and a lot of CEOs really now start to understand that this is going to have a big impact on them personally and, of course, on their employees, but also on the company. So they start thinking about these climate risks. Now, of course, traditionally, especially Western and Northern Europe has been more progressive in this matter. But you know markets like Poland or Slovenia that I already mentioned. They are closely connected to all these companies in Eastern Europe. So of course they also see the marketing potential, the potential also to maybe increase their sales, to position themselves better in the market, besides this intrinsic motivation that I've already mentioned.

Manca Jurca: 4:25

But you know we started in 2006. Maybe I can just tell you a little bit about the story. So it's kind of this classical founder story. It didn't start in a garage, but it started in a very small apartment in Munich. So our founder, Moritz Lehmkuhl, of course borrowed some money from his parents.

Manca Jurca: 4:40

You know, that's how you have to start a company you got to borrow some money from your parents and start really slow and basically he just started annoying some print shops saying, hey, because you know, in 2006, when you look back, we kind of mostly what we were talking about unfortunately still in terms of climate action was kind of like okay, you know, paper comes from trees and trees are kind of good for climate action. Maybe we should use less paper or maybe we should use kind of more sustainable paper. So that's where he really went into and most of the clients we had in the first few years were actually just small print shops. And then more and more companies started to be aware that they also need to do something in climate action. And then, kind of around 2018, 2019, Fridays for Future started happening.

Manca Jurca: 5:27

Greta Thunberg started to be everywhere in the media and I love that story because that's when suddenly companies started proactively calling us and asking what they can do in climate action. So actually it was the kids, who usually don't take so seriously, who started this kind of big change, because they went on the streets and they said guys, what's happening? You're messing with our future. What are you gonna do about it?

Ryan Grant Little: 5:50

It's amazing to me how many companies, politicians you know like grown-ups talk about Greta Thunberg and Fridays for Future in 2019 as being the reason that they started making changes. So that's, I mean, it's really fascinating that what an impact she's had kind of on the corporate world that I think we don't always appreciate. No, absolutely.

Manca Jurca: 6:13

I mean you can see what kind of impact she has had based on all the criticism that she's getting from. You know, certain, let's say, political sides or lobbies, and that's the best thing that can happen to you. You know that's when you really know you're doing something really good when the oil lobby starts really disliking you and posting stuff about you in the media.

Ryan Grant Little: 6:32

When Donald Trump is telling you to get some friends. That's when you know you've made it.

Manca Jurca: 6:38

Yeah exactly, but not to get too political. You know, it's not just her, it's kids all around the world who really kind of heard this message and where companies again, of course, you know they are also thinking of the future of their employees, of their families, of their kids. But they also see this generation as the next generation consumers, as the next generation employees, employer branding being such a hot topic right now because everyone is searching for new, young, educated employees Well, guess what? These employees want their companies to do? Something good. They don't want to work in companies where they feel like the company is maybe harmful for the environment. So it doesn't have to be necessarily climate partner, not necessarily working in climate action, but just taking climate action seriously and really taking new steps towards, you know, reducing their emissions, towards just achieving a positive impact in the world.

Manca Jurca: 7:34

And I have so many companies that I work with and they surprise me time and time again, because these are some usually traditionally very conservative companies from which you wouldn't maybe expect that they will be so motivated to do, you know, to take part in climate action, where they have a young employee who comes on board. I had one company from Austria where this young employee he was a student, started working during the summer there and he sent an email addressed to the CEO with his sorry I'm thinking of the English word now Sometimes I have troubles translating directly from German but with kind of his ideas and tips of how they can take climate action within this very, very conservative traditional industry. He achieved it and so this email really reached the CEO. They disagreed with some of the ideas, but that's fine. He started a conversation around this. So, yeah, definitely straight a bit from the main topic there. But young people are really making a huge change in the corporate world.

Ryan Grant Little: 8:36

So it's been my experience working with larger companies and let me know if this resonates with you.

Ryan Grant Little: 8:43

A lot of them have struggled for years to get kind of the net zero goal by X-date through the board and that was kind of like the 2020 hit and people were like, okay, like our 2025 or 2030 goal it doesn't seem so far away Now, as it did somehow in 2018, as we ticked over into the 20s, but it feels like achieving that milestone of just getting the commitment to go net zero by a certain time has been really exhausting, right.

Ryan Grant Little: 9:17

It's been really like political and resource intensive and challenging within organizations and my feeling is that a lot of them kind of hit that they got it through, got it approved and then sort of went tools down and said, okay, like we did it. And actually, actually, it's kind of like it's like, you know, registering for the marathon is in the hard part, and so now I see, you know I talked to a lot of corporates and they're like, okay, we made this commitment and now we're like we're just trying to figure out how to start and I feel like you probably talked to a lot of companies in this situation. It's like like, hi, we have a climate problem, help us. What is your professional advice to companies that haven't started yet? How should they start?

Manca Jurca: 11:04

Yeah. So just to kind of go back to setting yourself a net zero goal, you know it is an ambitious goal and usually what we do try to do with companies is to advise them before they've even set themselves this goal, to just kind of see is this in any way, is this realistic in this moment for you not to be pessimistic? But if you set yourself a net zero goal until 2030, which is extremely ambitious do you know that you have the means on any sort of level to achieve it, so that, of course, technology is improving every single day? So a little part of course you leave open because you know that there's gonna be technological advances. You know, did you gotta be ambitious in your goal setting? But usually we try to get companies already work with us beforehand, where we make a whole analysis of their emissions. What kind of the best case scenario for them is until 2030, because if you have set yourself that goal, you need to do your best to achieve it, and you know that's what I think is a mistake that a lot of companies make is that you know net zero sounds so sexy so they wanna suddenly publicize to everyone that they wanna do it until 2030. But of course, like you said, if there's no strategy behind that, then you're gonna be in a pickle because at one point you're gonna say, sit down your stakeholders, and you're gonna say, okay, what now? How on earth are we going to achieve it? This is like me signing up for a marathon two days before and then kind of panicking and maybe in the end not even taking part at the marathon because it's all too scary. So at Climate Partner we have developed kind of this holistic climate action strategy which is quite easy to understand and it's something that most of us already know we should be doing.

Manca Jurca: 12:50

What is just kind of makes all the steps clear, and I think in any plan that you make, it's really important to define concrete steps that you're going to take so that also you can be really happy with the achievements you have made. So that's gonna benchmarking and kind of understanding, which, mile stones, you've already achieved. And it all starts with measuring your carbon footprint. That's kind of the first step every company should do and it's really not too difficult. Of course it depends on the complexity of the company, but you can measure the carbon footprint of products, you can measure carbon footprint of your events. You can measure your carbon footprint of your company and so on. So after you've measured your emissions, after you understand where your hotspots really are because this is not just measuring, not just you having one number in the end that tells you nothing, but really understanding which are your problem areas and also which are your opportunities to improve based on that, you can set yourself reduction goals.

Manca Jurca: 13:47

Can I always tell every company make two different goals at least make a long term and make a short term goal, because a short term goal is really gonna motivate your employees, because your employees are the biggest strength of your company. They will come up with the most amazing creative ideas and also they are in charge of their department, so they know exactly what's possible in the department. They're the experts and if you set them a goal until 2050, it will. For many of them that's just kind of way they're in the future. So what can I really do on a daily basis to contribute to a 2050 goal? What's the 2025 goal? I can contribute. I have so many ideas that can actually be taken into action quite soon. But the long term goal is also really important, just kind of for strategic decisions, for leaving your whole company, kind of the northern star of your company.

Manca Jurca: 14:41

So, after you set yourself reduction goals, obviously the meaningful next step is to take reductions. So you know where you wanna go. You have checked your emissions, you have a strategy in place. Okay, now start implementing it easiest one, always. If you haven't done that, the first step is always switch to green energy, right, so just switch your tariff to green energy and I guarantee you gonna reduce a lot of your emissions, and that's something I can Tell to every company. You know it's great if you also build your own source of green energy, like nowadays, a lot of people work with solar or hydro energy. Switching your electricity contract is gonna do a big impact in the world, and after that you can really start checking also other areas. What are the companies actually the biggest hotspots in their missions? Is the employee mobility, because people drive their car to get to your company every day. Okay, so what can I do to motivate my employees, in case public transport is not possible, to maybe car share and reduce emissions in that way?

Manca Jurca: 15:42

And then we come to the fourth step, which is also really important, which kind of looks outside of our company, and that is the support of certified climate action projects. So the certified climate action projects take place all over the world and they really prevent the existence of further CO2 emissions order, even absorbing CO2 emissions out of the atmosphere. So we call that compensation, which means you have measured your emissions, then you compensate these emissions. Of course, you don't forget about the reduction, about goal setting, but it's really important also, science based targets tells us this. The IPCC tells us that. You know, to reach our global net zero goals, we need to invest in green technologies. You know, kind of invest in the technological development to absorb more emissions, but also in nature based solutions. But of course, what we cannot forget at the same time is the social impact of these projects, so that these projects really follow one or more SDGs to improve the lives of people that live in the area of this project.

Manca Jurca: 16:46

And then, in the fifth step and this is really, really important is transparent communication. You know you Do good and also talk about it, but talk about it in a really transparent way, because nowadays, just saying that you're green is not enough, because no one understands what you mean with that. You know there's so many companies that have been green or blue or whatever they have called themselves creating their own labels for years, where the consumer, the stakeholders, didn't really understand what stands behind it. So you know, just Bite in that sour apple and report on your emissions. You're gonna have to do it quite soon under the CSRD, but you can do it now already. So show your consumers that you are really taking this issue seriously and you're not hiding behind you know some flaws calls, but you are really working on it.

Ryan Grant Little: 17:29

You mentioned labels and green and blue, and your company was one of the earliest to release a kind of seal of approval that companies can use and that's evolved over time, right. I mean, I think some kind of independent certification is necessary but, as you mentioned, it can be confusing if there are too many things out there or if they're vague and you know don't have kind of a specific Checklist like, say, Bcorp has or something like that. What's the state of play around certifications and standards now and what should consumers and companies know?

Manca Jurca: 18:05

Yeah, so the EU is working on quite a lot of projects when it comes to that and the most famous is the green claims directive, which is probably gonna go live in all the national states of the EU somewhere in 2026. So the final draft, so the final version, has not been posted yet, so I can't say too much about it, but I do encourage everyone to kind of google it see what's the current status of that is. And the point of this directive is really to kind of prevent green washing through labels. So companies won't be able to just write to, you know, get a designer, make themselves a nice label and somehow give the consumer a feeling that they are very green or whatever, that they are super sustainable. It's really gonna have to be certified by a third party.

Manca Jurca: 18:51

So climate partner used to be quite known for our label, climate neutral, CO2 neutral. Can we kind of really stepped away now from that wording in our claim. So we listened to the market and the market said listen, there's still actually no definition of climate neutrality where everyone would be using the same definition, which is really a shame, cuz we've been trying To really work on that to get kind of an ISO standard to take place, but unfortunately so far that still hasn't happened. So now we switch to Climate Partner certified as a label and, of course, still we are very famous for QR code, which the consumers can scan, and under this QR code, to get all the information about the company or the product. So the carbon footprint that we have measured, the goals that the company has set themselves, reduction measures that they have already made because it's important to celebrate the good things that have already been done and also which time action projects, they support.

Ryan Grant Little: 19:51

Okay, so your labels have kind of individual QR code. They have an individual Code that relates to each company where people can go and see, go to the in depth, so that the label is actually just kind of a ad for the report.

Manca Jurca: 20:09

Yes, it's an official registered warranty because you need take certain steps to be able to get this label. So if you have the label, you know you're in good company, because other companies that have this label have also done these five steps and a reporting about them. So of course, once you send this information officially in the universe, you're also gonna be really motivated, kind of stick to the plan. So we go back to the net zero gold that you have mentioned, where companies, once you have they have said themselves and zero goal, they really need to do their best to achieve it because otherwise in twenty thirty they're gonna have to disappoint their stakeholders a little bit and say, well, you know, maybe we didn't do enough in the past few years to actually reach it.

Ryan Grant Little: 20:49

That's a great way to connect the products themselves to the reporting into the information, because I find a lot of times these reports live under three tabs on the homepage of a company's website and if I'm eating I don't know a chocolate bar, I'm not gonna usually just make the connection be like I'm gonna go surf to their website and click under legal privacy and find this sustainability report or something. But if it's right there and I can scan it on my phone, you know that I might create some more awareness and that kind of like direct connection to the product itself.

Manca Jurca: 21:24

Yeah, you know, of course not everyone is going to do that and that's understandable, and I think in climate action that's always really difficult to find the right balance between giving enough information but also, at the same time, not overloading the consumer with the information, because not everyone of course has the time to read the whole, like you say, the whole sustainability report of the company. That's unrealistic to think that for a long time companies were also hiding behind that a little bit. So there's a sustainability report were so long hundred and fifty pages long. It's like Terms and Conditions, right, that all the apps are always offering you which is made on purpose, that no one is ever going to read that

Manca Jurca: 22:03

You can go on this tracking page and you see that it's made in a really clear and concise way and it's also supported by numbers. I think that's really important to kind of quantify everything that you're doing, because you know we can all be poets, you know, and kind of spin the message however we want. When we are just describing what we're doing. But if you support this with numbers, with your concrete carbon footprint and with your concrete goal, how much you want to reduce your carbon footprint

Ryan Grant Little: 22:34

We live in a bit of a strange time right now with this kind of reporting, because most of its voluntary and, as you say, in Europe that's changing pretty soon. But you have this kind of weird structure where some companies are reporting on this and doing a very good job. Some of them are much bigger percentage, I would say I reporting and you know it needs work but the majority are not reporting at all and it's that middle group that, as soon as you report and kind of their questions or something's not as easily explain what's more complicated. That's where the fire start on Twitter and people are kind of criticizing this. So where is you know? Probably what we should be doing is penalizing the groups that are not reporting at all, going after them saying where is your report? But it's kind of like it's very calculated silence and it's working to their advantage right now.

Manca Jurca: 23:26

I think that's really a shame to kind of say either you are a hundred percent perfect, or you're bad. But I think generally, you know, as a society we do tend to see things, we kind of tend to box things in certain drawers. So there's, you know, good or bad, and there's nothing in between what I think everyone should just look at themselves as an individual and see ok, maybe not everything that I'm doing in my life is actually so sustainable, but you know what? There's some areas in which I can really do something good for the world. So, for instance, for me it's that I haven't been eating meat for a couple of years and that I travel a lot with a train. Whenever I'm visiting my family in Slovinia, I always take the train, you know, to kind of prevent driving with a car and so on. But for someone else maybe that means something completely different. For instance, my dad loves me t, of course. He's Slovenia and I can never get him to switch to vegetarian.

Ryan Grant Little: 24:18

Juicy marbles comes from Slovenia. Absolutely, you're right, delicious plant based steak.

Manca Jurca: 24:26

I know, I know shopped the billaprus. I hope this is such a plug, but now I'm always doing it, just because they're selling Juicy marbles, but anyways. But you know, on the other hand, my dad never did the driver's license because for years he has been committed to taking public transport. So this is a guy who has been driving to work for the past forty years every day with either the train or bus, and that's great you know we have.

Manca Jurca: 24:53

We live under different conditions and the same goes really for companies, because some companies just have products that's per se maybe are not the most climate friendly, but we need them. So now we had a huge success story with an aluminum Industry company with whom we did a whole decarbonization road map and they have set themselves a mazing Target, even though of course, aluminum as we know the others cost quite a lot of emissions. But the fact is also we need aluminum, we need it, we need it for buildings in the industry. Okay, but how do we make this product in this company more climate friendly? It's quite easy for, let's say, for services company, exactly services company, or if you have a plant based product per se, then it's gonna be easier for you probably, at least for the level of the product, to reduce your emissions, but we really need to just give everyone the chance to do their best.

Ryan Grant Little: 25:48

What are some of the other highlights so far that you've seen with companies that you've worked with, like, what are some interventions that have worked really well that could be replicable to other companies?

Manca Jurca: 25:59

So many. You know it's difficult to really kind of now just give you a couple of examples, because we work with so many different industries and every industry has its own specific issues but also its own specific opportunities. I love it when companies, for example, if these are B2C companies or B2B, so when they kind of really proactively involve the next person or company in their chain, so when, let's say, the company's really involved their consumers in their climate action. So here I'm thinking of UK the Mindful Chef, who now you know they're a food delivery service, so with them we have really measured the carbon footprint of all of their products and based on that now they're offering a low carbon range in which then the consumers can choose, so they can really filter their offer and really decide for products for their foods that do have a lower carbon impact. I think that's great and they also do a lot in terms of educating their customers.

Manca Jurca: 26:57

But then we have company, for instance, in Austria, Lenzing , who is a very B2B company in the textile industries, and we have so many of their suppliers or their clients who have now connected together with us because they were really saying hey, guys, look at everything that we're doing, what are you doing for climate action? So I love the success stories when companies manage to kind of inspire the next person, the next company, because often you have a feeling that you're just kind of this small dot in the world that can't really make any change, whether it's your company or you as a person. But imagine, you know, if you manage to inspire three people, if you manage to inspire two other companies, this is going to cause sort of like a domino effect where hopefully one day we're all doing something in climate action.

Ryan Grant Little: 27:42

It's kind of the perfect setup for this network effect, because it's not just like passing on good news and, you know, referring a friend, but actually as companies get their suppliers and customers to drink the Kool-Aid on this, it's helping their own goals as well, right, because with scope, three emissions with this type of thing. So if I'm a food retailer, if I'm a grocery store, then getting my, the companies that supply the products on board with this kind of thing is going to ultimately affect my carbon footprint as well, right, in a positive way. So good setup.

Manca Jurca: 28:17

Exactly, and that's what this is kind of also what the science-based targets initiative is really trying to do, where the companies that really have most of their emissions in scope three are encouraged to set themselves engagement goals. And engagement goals actually mean okay, how many other companies are you going to engage to set themselves also kind of a science-based targets? You know, some might call it even a little bit of a networking scheme, but in the best sense it's the best sense. Multi-level marketing for the world. That's one that's worth supporting.

Ryan Grant Little: 28:50

Yeah, multi-level marketing is ends up being the solution to climate change. Who would have thought? Well, I mean, nothing surprises me anymore. So changing tags a little bit. I recently hosted you as a speaker, thank you very much at Vienna's Food Hack Meetup where you were talking. You were talking about decarbonizing the grocery chain, but you also kind of spoke a bit about the, about some natural ways of decarbonization that I was really interested to hear about your love of and the related facts about bogs and seagrasses and fighting climate change. Why are these ?

Manca Jurca: 29:32

Yeah, I think as a personal a lot of people can relate. I always root for the underdog. I always root for kind of those hidden champions, and a few years ago I discovered this fact about bogs, and I don't know if everyone knows what bogs are, so they're usually kind of these. You can imagine them as this small or sometimes also big areas of kind of still water.

Manca Jurca: 29:51

A lot of people like wet wetlands and swamps and this type of thing, exactly exactly, and people usually kind of connect a negative connotation with that. They're kind of kind of with the stinky brown areas of water that no one really knows what to do with it. There's maybe some nerds who are researching some insects in there, but otherwise no one really wants to have much to do with them. And for years bogs have actually been dried out because people just didn't see any use of them. You know, this is unfortunately the system that we live in. Nothing is kept just because it's already there. We need to have a certain use for it and bogs didn't really serve humanity much, or at least that's what we thought. So a lot of bogs all across Europe, all across the world, have been dried out. But the thing is, bogs make out 3% of the Earth's surface, but they actually absorb more to emissions that all the forests in our world, which is amazing. But of course it's also a double edged sword because once you dried them out, all those emissions go right back into the atmosphere. So we have really contributed a lot of the CO2 emissions into the atmosphere. But just drying out these amazing glance and you know most of the people know this currently. Unfortunately, we don't just have the issue of the climate crisis, we also have a biodiversity crisis. In the box, of course are also really important living spaces for biodiversity for many species. One, fortunately, have now already died out, and the same goes for seagrass.

Manca Jurca: 31:23

I was listening to a different podcast, I think, about a year ago, and they hosted I am not gonna remember his name, but this guy from the us who started now big company of kind of vertically farming seagrass, because seagrass also absorbs in really CO2 lot of emissions, but seagrass has the benefit that we also can eat it.

Manca Jurca: 31:43

So I think that has a lot of potential because suddenly we as people say oh you know what I do, like sushi, I, like you know, especially in asian countries, use seagrass a lot In their food. So I think that really has a potential because suddenly we're showing people this kind of benefit. But we have this great project in terms of box. I just want to mention that we have a great project that we work with at Climate Partner where companies can support the nature park car vendor it's in t roll when we financially support kind of the re naturalization, so the rebuilding kind of of box, because, like I said, per se box often don't have kind of a financial benefit for us as humanity, unfortunately. What companies can really then do an impact by financially supporting these park rangers in the park that they are really taking care of these bugs and kind of preventing those bugs to live the same fate that they did In the seventies where they all got dried out?

Ryan Grant Little: 32:37

I post a link to that in the show notes for anyone who wants to adopt a bug. Where is the best place for people to reach you online?

Manca Jurca: 32:45

You can contact me on LinkedIn check my name in the podcast notes, I guess because I think if I say it now anyways, everyone is gonna spell it incorrectly except the slovenians. So that's kind of the best way to reach me, or just reach me at manca. jurca@c limatep artner. com to my email address. Always love to talk with interested people.

Ryan Grant Little: 33:06

Put that in there as well. That sounds great, Manca. Thank you so much.

Manca Jurca: 33:09

Thank you so much, Ryan.

Ryan Grant Little: 33:11

Thanks for listening to Another Climate tech Podcast. It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello@ climate tech pod. com. Find me, Ryan Grant Little, on LinkedIn. I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye for now.