Ryan Grant Little: 0:42

Welcome to another Climate Tech podcast interviews with the people trying to save us from ourselves. In this episode, I spoke with Amos Golan, founder and CEO of Chunk Foods. From getting an investment from the actor Robert Downey Jr to being the first plant-based steak on a steakhouse chain ever, chunk has had a streak of successes. Amos is a true Renaissance man whose skills range from developing advanced electronics to a career as a high-end French chef. I reached them in New York City. I'm Ryan Grant Little Thanks for being here, amos. Welcome to the podcast. It's super good to have you here. Great to be here.

Amos Golan: 1:21

Thanks for having me.

Ryan Grant Little: 1:22

You're the founder and CEO of Chunk Foods. Can you talk a little bit about how Chunk came into existence and a little bit about the products that you have?

Amos Golan: 1:31

Absolutely. I moved to the US in summer of 2016. I moved here to do a Masters at the Media Lab at MIT, but when I landed I started seeing PlantBase everywhere. It was summer of 2016. Beyond launch at Whole Foods, Impossible did the Momofuku collaboration and PlantBase was all the rage. So I got really excited about it. But I saw a few challenges with it, mostly on the ingredient side and also the availability of other products that are not patties and burgers but got really excited about it. And then, moving forward a couple of years, I started working at Ferrero, which we all know for the products like Ferrero.

Ryan Grant Little: 2:10

Rocher.

Amos Golan: 2:11

Yeah, Ferrero, Rocher and Kinder and Tic Tac and all these great products that a lot of people in Europe and the US love.

Amos Golan: 2:17

So I started working there as part of their innovation team.

Amos Golan: 2:19

I was the youngest member of the leadership team for the Open Innovation Science team and we started looking into challenges around food and ag and so on and working on other projects.

Amos Golan: 2:29

I got exposed to the world of fermentation and I got really excited about the potential of using fermentation to improve different ingredients and I think somehow fell in place. I realized that potentially, fermentation with a combination of quality PlantBase ingredients like soy or wheat or peas or rice can really solve some of the sensory challenges that PlantBase had and also some of the challenges around the ingredients that go into PlantBase, and started experimenting it was moving quite a few years ahead, but it was COVID time and started working on making a better PlantBase products in every single three hour ahead, so at night and during weekends, and my wife and I would continuously try these products that I've created. And at some point my wife said you know, when are you making this thing again? So I figured OK, there's some aspects of credibility here that I was able to create and you know the rest is history when I decided to pursue this full time, like with my job, raise some money, and you know, here we are today.

Ryan Grant Little: 3:33

And I'm going to ask you some questions later on about your varied career path, because that's really fascinating. And I haven't tried one of the trunk food steaks yet, but I've seen a lot of pictures of them and read some reviews. They look delicious, the reviews are amazing, and that's not the case with all PlantBase offerings out there, unfortunately. What are you doing right that some of the others aren't? What did you master in your kitchen while you were cooking these for your wife that others have not figured out?

Amos Golan: 4:02

Yeah. So I think I mean, you know things have a tendency to evolve, right. So we saw some trailblazers in the beginning, like Impossible and Beyond. They did a lot for the industry and also working on products that are improving all the time. But there's a new group of startups like us and a few others that, I think, put the culinary experience in the first place. So, and also the ingredients that go into the product. So I think you know maybe I answered your previous question kind of partially, so I will say that you know, what's unique about Shank is not only the culinary experience, it's also the fact that it resembles a whole cut product, which is quite unique, so with the texture, with the fiber structure and so on, and it's also crafted with just a handful of healthy, recognizable ingredients. We don't have any binders, we don't have any GMOs, we don't have any stabilizers in the product, and we can make it a scale, which is also important. So I think what's really you know, what we've been able to do is really focus on ingredients, focus and process.

Amos Golan: 4:58

I think our team is made up of people coming from different you know, different industries, bringing their expertise, but they all love food. You know we're not looking at this as a product. We're looking at this as food. This needs to be a staple that people want to eat. You know people need to want to pay for this product and it needs to work for them, just like other products work for them when they cook them at home. Right? So if someone is used to cooking meat or still loves meat, you know you need to give them an experience that's comparable or better to what they're used to doing today. So they it can be challenging for them to cook it, or it can't have the smell of cat food when you cook it and your whole apartment smells like cat food afterwards, so it can't have fat rendering out. I mean obviously being a little kind of cynical here, but this was some of the problems with the less great products out there, and we really said functionality of the food right exactly.

Amos Golan: 5:50

But you know, even functionality like I actually don't like the word functionality because it's very techie and, at the end of the day, food is food. We want to think about it as food. We want to think about it as what it is and we don't think about an ingredient that's added there for functionality. You want to think about an ingredient that's added into it because it's a great ingredient. It has a lot of protein, it tastes great, it had some other, you know, nutritional benefit. So, even though, obviously, when thinking about food technology and functionalities, when we develop the product, at the end of the day, if the chef at the restaurant gets the product and knows what to do with it, if their cooks know how to cook it immediately because they use to cook beef and it's just the same, then we've achieved what we want to achieve, which is ease of use, great tasting product and just one to one ability to switch the product with beef or pork or chicken or lamb, or you know you name it.

Ryan Grant Little: 6:41

This reminds me a lot of kind of the philosophy of chris brison, the founder of new school foods, who has a plant based salmon fillet, and for him it was really important that it goes from raw To cooked, and especially for the higher end chefs at restaurants. Basically, the complaints that they would have and why they wouldn't have plant based meats in the kitchen is because I said, look, I don't want to take a puck out of the freezer and go from that and then have this, like you know, pre cooked frozen thing and then serve that. They wanted to go from the kind of like raw to cook experience as with meat, and so that was really important to them. It sounds like it is to you as well, and you mentioned restaurants. So in the US you're on the menu at the chain Charlie steakhouse.

Ryan Grant Little: 7:27

Lots of publicity about this. It's the first time a plant based steak has been on a steakhouse chains menu and it's listed as the F? You burger or the freaking, unbelievable plant based by chunk. And I think for me the most unbelievable part of the story is that the New York Post covered it and they're actually pretty nice. They actually gave you a pretty good review. I, when I saw them, like that's not generally a newspaper that I consider is, like, super friendly to you know vegan lifestyles and foods. So congratulations on that. But I'm curious about your partnership with this. It feels like a very momentous moment. How did it come together and what does this mean for other plant based brands? And even if you want to talk about some advice for other plant based brands about how to have a successful partnership with you know something that might be considered an unlikely ally, absolutely yeah.

Amos Golan: 8:23

so I mean it's a great name. Talk of the town group. The group that owns Charlie steakhouse are the ones who came up with a name. You know the F you fill a, obviously you know kind of a funny name as well, but really I think showcases what they felt when they first tried it. So we're very good friends with them now. We really love them and appreciate the relationship.

Amos Golan: 8:46

They use the product just like they use any other meat products. They cook all their products, which all premium meats on open fire with citrus and oak wood. So, and the result is incredible with our product and I think what made a change for them was that they didn't need to do anything different so they could take our product, put it on the grill just like they do with any other cut of any other Thing, right be fish or beef and get an amazing result. So again, I kind of like you know it's going back to the previous question I think the culinary experience and you know we can talk about exactly that what is important for chefs and consumers. I'm not sure it's always All the attributes of the animal product, but that's some and the important ones, and I think this is where companies need to focus. Focus on what is important for your clients. Talk to your clients, understand what their needs are, see how they use the product and then say you know whether this thing is important on. That thing is important, but with them it was. Just tell you the story they told us they've been going to the national restaurant association show For years now and for the last 15 years or so they've been looking for exactly this product and they couldn't find it in this year. Okay, sorry, may I ask what are you a chef?

Amos Golan: 9:59

In April we were the first booth day samples, just by chance, and they came to Alex, our VP of Business, and said we really love the product, can you make these adjustments so it fits with what we need? And he immediately said yes, and then we started figuring out what we can actually do to make it work. But within a week they had the samples they asked for and the rest is history. So it was very quick. They are very supportive.

Amos Golan: 10:26

We give them as much support as we can and it's great. We get pictures all the time from them of families finally getting to have steak dinner together. A person who used to be a Charlie Steakhouse regular can now, when his daughter and his grandkids come, he can take them to his favorite restaurant. So I think, if I can give one advice and again, we are a young company, I feel it's challenging to give advice where we are but I think we did something right, which is focus on the people who cook the food and focus on the people who eat the food and make them happy. It's food, it's not technology. It's the technology enables food. That is what it is.

Ryan Grant Little: 11:04

And what's the reaction been beyond that? So definitely it's bringing in more customers. It's always like the example you just gave there's always these days the one plant-based person and a group of diners. Now they can actually go to this type of restaurant. It kind of opens up those possibilities. But I'm imagining are there protesters standing outside with signs about? This is a woke food steakhouse.

Amos Golan: 11:30

Or do you get some of that? Obviously you get some of that, but at the end of the day, we're not talking only about vegans. So let's say vegans in the US it depends who you're asking and what data you're based on but let's say 2% to 3%. You have vegetarians. You have people who stop eating beef for different health reasons. You have pescetarians. You have people who just want to do meatless Monday. So we're not talking about one or two or 3%.

Amos Golan: 11:53

We're talking about a lot of people who, if we don't attack them for choosing meat once in a while, if we just give them a better option or a good option or a decent option I mean, till now we didn't even have decent options Give them a good option. They'll make that decision at least once a week, once a month, once every two weeks, every day, and that's how you make change. So we need to create great products that taste great, that cook well, that chefs can use and that people want to eat, and the change will come from there. So no, we see there's always nasty stuff online and then trolls and so on, but most of the feedback the waiters you can't imagine anyone. There's people there at Charlies who's been working there for 20 years. They enjoy the product. They sell the product. They enjoy selling the product because it gives them a solution for group dining. It gives them a solution for families, uniting families, making the eating experience really. It's about bringing people together to the table, and that's what these kind of products are able to do.

Ryan Grant Little: 13:49

I love that. I think that's, if we can offer a product that tastes as good or better, that costs the same, that's just as accessible, then this is the way to win people over, and some of the other messaging that we've kind of done from the food tech space definitely has been less effective. So it's great to see this kind of yeah, I mean, winning hearts and minds in a steakhouse is a pretty awesome thing to see, and I think people will appreciate why plant-based steaks are good for cows. But, as you mentioned, it's not just vegetarians and vegans, it's also people who are interested in their CO2 footprint. How are these better for the environment? What are some of the numbers we should be aware of in terms of the ecological footprint?

Amos Golan: 14:34

Yeah. So I mean, look to be very honest with you. We have not done some of these early stage studies that some other companies did. We didn't spend the money on that. The reason is that the real benefit in terms of footprint comes at scale. You can't claim these kind of benefits when you make one steak at a lab. You can claim it when you make it at 100 tons a day and you're efficient when it comes to energy and when it comes to everything else.

Amos Golan: 15:01

But others have done the research related to growing soy or growing crops for human consumption, versus feeding a cow or a pig or a chicken with those crops and then eating them. And the ratio is, I mean, depends, but usually it's like I think it's every calorie that you can consume from plants, you can probably need about 100 calories or 80 calories, depending on something along about two orders of magnitude more, to then get that calorie from an animal to feed the animal and then get it from there. So that's more or less the ratio. It's about two orders of magnitude. We have not done that for our process, but our process is based on solid-sale fermentation, which is essentially the only type of fermentation that has been used in the food industry to make solid products. So when you think about cheese, think about sausage, think about bread, coffee that you might have had this morning with solid-sale fermented cocoa, with solid-sale fermented maybe you had some chocolate next to it.

Amos Golan: 15:58

So, really, the economies of scale are there, the energy savings are there and the infrastructure is there for processes like ours. So we're not planning to build our own factory, we're renovating factories because the infrastructure is there. So, going back to your question, I don't have the exact numbers for you because we think that the time to get these numbers is when we have the operation at scale and then we can show the huge benefit. But if we go with first principles, it's what I said. You know one calorie versus a hundred. You know hundred calories to feed the cow that you didn't get one calorie from. So it's about two orders of magnitude.

Ryan Grant Little: 16:37

And the good news is you're going to scale now. So you've done a raise, which will touch on in a second, but you're planning to build one of the largest whole cut plant based factories in the world, or maybe not built from scratch, but renovate, as you just said. Can you talk a little bit about the dimensions here or visualize what that looks like, what kind of throughput we're going to see from a factory like that?

Amos Golan: 16:57

Yeah, absolutely so maybe I'll just this one correction there. We already built that factory. That factory is already operating and we sell product out of that factory in the US now. So we started. You know there's now more and more product coming to the US and it's your listeners, hopefully, by the time this is released they'll they'll see more and more of our locations on boarding chunk on their menu. So we're talking about a factory that can deliver millions of steaks. This is still quite modest for food, but it's one of the biggest In, not in terms of footprint but in terms of production in the world for our specific subcategory. Since then, we've raised a little more money, which hasn't been announced, and we're planning to build a much bigger facility starting next year, which will be able to deliver close to a hundred million steaks a year, more or less, and really, you know, get into more and more locations in the US. We're now focusing for service. Hopefully eventually get into fast, casual and ultimately QSR and retail.

Ryan Grant Little: 17:55

Can you talk a little bit about what? So you, you started, you've made quite an impact at this one restaurant chain. You're in multiple restaurants. You're looking at food services. You're looking at retail. I know a lot of all proteins. Companies struggle with where to start. Do they start it with the restaurants? They start, you know, on the grocery shelves. What was your approach to this and what have you learned from this? And is it different kind of market by market?

Amos Golan: 18:20

I think it is, and I think it's different by product and by product category. But you know, thinking about our journey so far, and you know we don't know yet if the decisions we made are the right decisions. Right, we only see the trend and I think the trend is very positive. But when we just started I was thinking mostly about doing retail because I wanted to see the immediate impact, I wanted to see the product on the shelf right. But then, as we made progress, as we raise money, as we saw the reactions to the product, I said you know, people need to get the best possible experience with our products and we need to see the highest velocities Possible with our product when we start off. And that's where food service really helps.

Amos Golan: 19:01

So restaurants, you know I can cut a salad and the chef can cut a salad and probably taste better if they dress it and they cut it right. So and they charge for it right and their customers are happy to pay that premium for the restaurant experience. So I think when you scale the product, when it's for a service, things are still not Scaled as much as they should be and then economies of scale still, to some extent, still don't kick in. You need to start in a place where people can get the best experience and can willing to pay a premium, and that's not on the supermarket shelf. But you know so that this is what we did.

Amos Golan: 19:35

Other companies have been very successful with retail, especially in 20, you know, during the pandemic, when I guess at the end of the pandemic but we're very focused on our product really gives chefs not only plan based chefs what they need. You know, I just we just on boarded like a Vietnamese chef who's definitely not a Plan forward guy. You know they would cook with any protein possible, but John gives them a solution and gives them another protein to work with. So we're, yeah, we think we've been able to focus on food service, and both because of the properties of the product and the quality and how it was received by chefs, but also because we thought that was the right business decision.

Ryan Grant Little: 20:15

Can you talk a little bit about kind of the accessibility and availability of this? At Charlie's it's on the menu at sixty nine dollars. That's probably consistent with their other products. That's not what it would be if it was on a supermarket shelf, of course and I know that it's built in. It's really baked into your goal as a company, which is to make delicious, nutritious, plant based whole cuts that are kind to the environment and accessible to all. So does accessible to all? Does that mean price parity with beef, or what does that mean to you?

Amos Golan: 20:44

Absolutely, I think. To me it means ultimately cheaper than beef, because I think you know we're selling a product that will be sold side to side with beef products. Are there Very high quality beef products or very low quality beef products? But it'll be sold ultimately on the same shelf and consumers will be able to make a choice there, and that choice is made up of different things. Right, it's made up of prices, made up of taste with. These are the primary aspects of Any consumer decision. And then you have other things like environment and animal welfare and so on, which are at least an order of magnitude less important for the majority of consumers, if not more than that. And beef has thousands of years of history of craved ability among people, right among humans. So if a steak, a rib eye steak, is a slightly more appealing to a meat eater than chunk, I need to be slightly cheaper than that rebuy to make that a smart consumer decision for that person to choose chunk over that rebuy at the retail shelf. So today we're already at price parity to good quality beef and our goal is ultimately to be cheaper than commodity beef for whole cuts. I think that the focus on whole cuts allows one to focus on products that are slightly more expensive, but I'll make you know if you think about it again. From first principles, it's made of the same ingredient, right as a burger. So why focus on a I don't know, like a man Four dollars per pound burger when you can focus on an eight or nine or a twelve dollar per pound steak if they're made of the same ingredients? So this was our kind of the hypothesis when we started working and, and I think we've been able to do it Now if your listeners want to try our products, they don't have to.

Amos Golan: 22:32

Obviously, I think Charlie's, you know they do an amazing job and they have the steak house cut, which is a different product and a more premium product. But if they want to try other chunk products, they don't have. You know there are other places that sell it for less. So there are places in New York that the price range is. You know. We now have launched our first fast, casual location with lunch with Neatburger. They sell it for twenty dollars. They sell sandwich with chunk. It's not the same portion, it's not the same product, but they sell it for twenty dollars. There are locations in the city that sell it for twenty five or thirty two. We have a variety of products that address different price points and different businesses, so I think even today, the majority of your listeners can probably afford trying a chunk and potentially even incorporating it in their diets.

Ryan Grant Little: 23:16

Are you exclusively in the US right now?

Amos Golan: 23:18

We're selling exclusively in the US. There are some things that will be announced soon about some interesting partnerships outside the US and I really hope that we'll find. You know we haven't been focused on this, but my team in Israel really wants a place where they can showcase how it works, so we'll probably find a couple of great chefs in Israel and plenty of those who will and work with them to serve chunk on their menus, but we really focus on the US. You know you need to be like again. You ask for some advice for founders earlier, so I guess another advice I can give is is be focused. You know it's very hard, it's very costly to focus on more than one market, on more than one channel and more than one product. So yeah, we're just trying to keep. It's very tempting whether we're trying to keep ourselves as focused as possible.

Ryan Grant Little: 24:04

Yeah, as an investor, I often use that kind of matrix one problem, one product, one market and that's a great way to start maybe getting on to that side of things and talking about investment. You've been very successful at fundraising. You raise 15 million dollars, which is the largest ever raised for an Israeli plant based company. You just mentioned also that you've got something kind of in the works right now. What's your sense right now? We have lots of investors and entrepreneurs that listen to this and one of the questions I always get is it is, or you know prompts is ask about the market, ask about the fundraising market, and I wonder so what's your feeling right now? I mean, plant based has gone through kind of a very compact cycle of ups and downs in the past few years. What's your sense right now in terms of investor appetite?

Amos Golan: 24:53

I see, you know the cycles, as you mentioned yourself, and I think many companies potentially were overvalued in twenty twenty one and beginning of twenty twenty two. Maybe this led to large checks, but some of these companies have not been able to perform and obviously this is the reason why you know there's potentially less appetite for some investors. But I think you know it's every company has its own story. Fundraising has never been easy. It's never easy, I think, for anyone, but it definitely hasn't been easy.

Amos Golan: 25:22

For me you know I'm single founder raising the pre seed was incredibly hard, you know, with a story and prototype and single like a team of one person, it hasn't been easy also to raise our seed around. It took us almost a year to raise that round. So I think you ask a couple questions in one question. So I guess, in terms of appetite, I definitely see huge appetite for incredible products with, you know, backed with technology and a great team. But with founders and companies you know can speak for myself I get full companies and professionals who are focused, who know what's going on in their business, who know the numbers, who understand that at the end of the day, we're all working in food and the tech side is just, it's the added cost, it's not the added benefit, right, the added benefit is creating great product. So I think investors have appetite for companies and founders like that and the advice I can give founders is like know your business, know your, know your financials, know when you're going to become profitable, know the bill of materials, know how to reduce the price on that, on that. Understand your technology. You know I'm lucky because I come from the technology side, so I understand our technology. I was also part of developing it Right. I helped you know I'm also kind of serving as CTO for the company. But for the less technical founders, understand your product and most of all I mean that's not my advice, it's, you know, smarter people than I am said this many times Be obsessed about your customers, be obsessed about the restaurant partners, be obsessed about your, your retail customers.

Amos Golan: 26:55

If the product is, talk to them you know. Stand by the retail shelf and ask them like why do you choose this? Why do you? Did you walk by and didn't pick this up? Talk to your restaurant partner, say why do you think this product is good or bad? And we do that all the time. We're obsessed about this. We work with our chef partners, we help them and we never lost a single location so far. Like we only sell more and more product into every location every week that passes by, because we help them and they help us improve the product in the company all the time.

Amos Golan: 27:24

And yeah, so I think there's plenty of investors sitting on pretty large funds. Some of them have stopped making investments or almost slowed down a lot in second half of 22, and beginning of 23. And I think now the appetite is coming back. There's natural selection. A lot of companies are dying, a lot of companies are being bought or kind of being merged into other bigger companies and the space is cleaning up. It's becoming less noisy, more clear, the winners are slowly becoming more evident and I think what we'll see is we'll see a couple of companies in every market dominating that market or those channels and just creating great products people want to buy.

Ryan Grant Little: 28:01

Yeah, I was. I was an internet entrepreneur in the late 90s and this reminds me a lot of kind of that era and sort of the period around you know, when the dot com bubble burst in 2000,. People saying, okay, well, that's the end of the internet was fun, well, it lasted. And yeah, not so much, not so much. One of your investors is the actor Robert Downey Jr, through footprint, coalition ventures, his vehicle. I wonder, does star power help at all with these rounds? Does it help get introduction to some of the restaurants?

Amos Golan: 28:32

I think the simple answer is yes, right, I mean, it's obviously very helpful. And I think it's potentially even more helpful when it comes to how other channels are echoing what we do. So whenever they echo what we do, even without us mentioning the footprint coalition investment they would choose that angle as a way to echo the news about us in the world, because that's interesting for people. So it definitely has been helpful for us. And you know, obviously I recommend such a partnership whenever possible.

Amos Golan: 29:05

I do believe that it's not only that, right at the end of the day, when the chef tries the product, they don't care that much about who's behind, about you know how much money you've raised or who's behind the backing the company. What they care about is like will this drive traffic into my restaurant? Will my cooks be able to cook this without a lot of training? Will this make me money? How do I price this, how do I cook this and how do I make my clients happy? So, yeah, it helps only that much, but it helps a lot, and you know. So, absolutely, we're very happy, very proud of, very proud of this partnership.

Ryan Grant Little: 29:37

They care about the look on the face of the person at the table in their restaurant, exactly. So, as promised, I want to come back a little bit to your career. You talked about that right at the beginning of this episode, but okay, so tell me what I'm missing here. You've been on the tech side of the Israeli army. You've designed special effects and props for film, you became an organic chemist and you worked on audio with headphones, especially at MIT Media Lab in Boston, and now you run a food company. So what's the through line? Connect the dots for us here, or? I mean, it's fascinating.

Amos Golan: 30:11

I think you maybe also one important thing that you missed there is that I also studied traditional French cooking.

Ryan Grant Little: 30:17

Okay.

Amos Golan: 30:18

I missed that, yeah, and what did a couple restaurants do? I think is really where kind of my passion for cooking and food comes from, stands from, and so I think I mean but I mean, look again, smarter people than I am said it in the past that you can only connect the dots looking backwards, right, and I think I was privileged to let curiosity lead me and kind of live the moment right. So I very supportive family, very supportive wife, very supportive everything I was able to pursue, things that were interesting for me at that time. I truly believe that all of my past experiences came into play and still come into play and creating chunk, creating the company, running the company, dealing with issues when we run into them in the company. So I think it's just being curious, living the moment, not caring too much or not planning too much.

Amos Golan: 31:09

Obviously, in the business we do, but when studying or when doing things, you're passionate about other things. You're passionate about just doing them for the sake of doing them, because you find them interesting, because you find them useful, because you want to know more about them, and then things just fall in place. So cooking food has always been a passion. I wanted to know it on a more you know, to become an expert in it, to work in restaurants and to understand how that is science. You know, I wanted to know more about the world and then it becomes useful later on when you're if you're an engineer, if you're a cook or if you're an artist right.

Amos Golan: 31:42

So I work with artists. The passion for design, the passion for beautiful things, the passion for things that have a meaning behind them, thinking about things deep, you know in them more deeply. Those are things that come from any space. So I think my advice on that and or, like my, the way I live my life is just, I try to do the things I'm passionate about at that moment and I just, you know, I know they'll connect and they'll help me in the future, no matter what I do at the moment.

Ryan Grant Little: 32:08

What's the best place for people to find you online?

Amos Golan: 32:10

So I'm the only social media I'm actually active on is, to some extent, is LinkedIn. So I and I'm quite responsive. So LinkedIn is probably the best way to reach out and I think maybe another point there is worth mentioning is probably worth thinking, because I'm not super great at answering, but I will answer it ultimately. So, yeah, linkedin is probably the best way.

Ryan Grant Little: 32:31

Okay, I'll post that in the show notes and I'm that's going to stick with me. I was privileged to let curiosity lead me. Yeah, I mean, that's a great way to live. So thanks for the inspiration. Amos, thank you so much for this talk. Thank you very much, really had a good time.

Amos Golan: 32:46

Thanks for the opportunity.

Ryan Grant Little: 32:48

Thanks for listening to another Climate Tech podcast. It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello at climate tech podcom. Find me, ryan Grant little, on LinkedIn. I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye for now.