Ryan Grant Little: 0:42

Welcome to Another Climate Tech Podcast conversations with the people trying to save us from ourselves. Did you know that there's a whole community out there that collects, trades, buys and sells tree seeds? I didn't, so it was really interesting to talk to Blaine Pearson, who's just launched an app called Squiirrel. Spelled with two, i's exactly four of these folks. We talked about why native trees are crucial to maintaining biodiversity. Last summer's wildfires in Canada and the world's most important seed bolt. I reached Blaine and her hometown and mine, for that matter, toronto. I'm Ryan Grant Little. Thanks for being here, Blaine. Welcome to the podcast.

Blaine Pearson: 1:21

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Ryan Grant Little: 1:24

You've been working in stealth mode for quite a while and finally it just I think a couple of weeks ago launched an app came out of South called Squiirrel with two. I's what is it?

Blaine Pearson: 1:35

Squiirrel is the love child of some research that was undertaken in partnership with Accenture in 2020-2021. Around that time, I had begun collecting seeds and then became a seed collector here in Ontario in Canada, and got really curious about what was happening in the tree seed supply because I was delivering these seeds to nurseries and getting a lot of feedback and excitement from them about certain seeds and certain species. I decided that there was something that was clearly happening that required a little bit more investigation, entered into this research with Accenture, did a national study about the availability and the supply of native tree seed and discovered a lot of really, really interesting things some core bottlenecks in the supply chain that were really limiting the ability for nurseries specifically to get enough tree seed into production to meet the demands of reforestation and restoration ecology. Squirrel, the app, is basically a digital tool that has been developed in partnership with the team at Accenture through a global grant. It's basically a marketplace where we can bring together those who need seed with those who can provide seed, so seed collectors and nurseries, growers and restoration ecologists.

Blaine Pearson: 2:58

That's one piece of the app. Is this marketplace functionality? The other piece of the app, which I think is probably, in the long term. Even more exciting than the marketplace component is the fact that we're developing the traceability of tree seed. Where seed comes from really matters. Seed is genetic material and, just like you probably learned in grade 8 biology, seed becomes adapted and trees become adapted to where they're grown. As the climate changes and the changes to temperature and water intensify, it becomes increasingly important to know where seed has come from in order to know where that tree should be planted in order to support its survival in the future. That's the other piece of the app that I think is really exciting is that every collection that gets logged on the app is getting a digital token associated with it that allows it to be traceable throughout the rest of the supply chain.

Ryan Grant Little: 3:53

As someone who works in climate tech, I see a lot of company taglines and I have to say I find the clarity of yours very refreshing. Find seed, sell seed, grow seed. I know exactly what you do. It's both descriptive and instructive at the same time. I'm curious about this world of seed collectors. I admit I don't know too much about this world and who these people are. Just bring us into this world. And who are these people? What motivates them? Is there other big communities around this offline already or in different places?

Blaine Pearson: 4:25

Yeah, seed collection is something that I hadn't really spent a lot of time thinking about before I started doing it myself. Through our research, we learned a lot about how it happens, who the players are and what it takes. Seed collectors are inherently, by virtue of being people who know a lot about trees and spend a lot of time outside contemplating nature, highly analog people. It's not a huge community in Canada and because they are so analog, there's a very limited understanding of where and how to find them online, because they've traditionally been offline. So these are people who have got an extraordinary amount of intelligence and information and knowledge about trees and about their life cycle and can look at a tree, not only identify it, but then can also forecast what seeds are going to be coming off of it and when, and then have the foresight and the organization to go back to that tree when it is harvestable, to collect the seeds and then take those seeds home or to a centralized spot, clean and process them and then put them into production. So there's a huge amount of information that these people have, and one of the things we learned through our research was that a lot of these folks are not seeing a generation coming up behind them that is interested in picking up the mantle and learning the skills. So we felt really strongly about the ability to not only make this interesting and cool for more people to become aware of as an art form and a form of science, but also a way to get involved in actually helping to solve part of the environmental crisis. So I think trying to find a new generation and excite a new generation of collectors is another piece of this puzzle.

Blaine Pearson: 6:17

Most collectors are older and aging out. It's not a highly lucrative profession. Most people who do it also have other jobs. It takes a lot of time. As I described, there are a number of different stages and you've got to be on it for a large part of the year. And then the other big hardship for these people is that it's hard to find the contracts. It's so locally based. Trying to connect with and see the demand for seed is really hard, and that's one of the things that we've tried to remove with the development of this marketplace. Really pushing forward and allowing for demand signals to be visible to collectors much sooner helps evolve the supply chain in a more efficient fashion.

Ryan Grant Little: 7:04

Do you see this as a movement? Because you've got a background both in marketing and tech for good through an agency calleddot-dash that you run. You've done a lot of work in growing community and awareness around the cannabis industry and Canada as well.

Blaine Pearson: 7:18

So I wonder are you taking those same skills to amplify the seed grower and the seed collector market as well, absolutely, this is about building movement because I think, as I described, there is this certainly there's a need for a lot more seed to be coming into the market and I can talk to that a little bit more but a lot more seed is going to take a lot more people participating and, as I mentioned, there's a lot you need to know in order to collect seeds. So I think one of the things we're seeing in the digital space is the development and the enjoyment and exploration of nature through digital tools, apps like iNaturalist and Seek, that are allowing people to get out into the natural world and connect with nature through learning. I think that, you know, squirrel is really an extension of that. We are trying to find a positive way through which we can enable people with information and tools to allow them to participate in being a part of the solution.

Blaine Pearson: 8:20

Collecting seeds, and specifically native seeds, and getting them into the hands of the people who can use them growers and restoration ecologists is a very realistic and tangible way that people can get involved in helping to solve part of this climate crisis. So, yes, yeah, I think that this is a movement and I think it is really exciting because for a whole new generation of people who have never been exposed to or thought about this as an issue. They can now pick up this app. They can or pick up a phone. They can successfully use a tool to help them identify a tree and learn about that tree and understand the value of that tree, and then they can actively collect seed from that tree and get it into the hands of those who can use it.

Ryan Grant Little: 9:10

So I think, yeah, we're just trying to help expedite the restoration of biodiversity and native ecosystems, one of the best known climate change mitigation strategies is planting trees, and I wonder if you could just paint that picture in terms of some numbers and how this approach kind of stacks up. Is this still the gold standard now, with some kind of more high tech approaches to climate change mitigation? Is this still kind of one of the best ways to mitigate climate change?

Blaine Pearson: 9:39

I think it's a really interesting question and I think it's a really complicated question and I don't want to overcomplicate it by giving you a too roundabout answer, but I think there are a lot of exciting things happening when it comes to sequestration of carbon, I think a lot of people have heard of direct air capture and also knows DAX, and I think it's really exciting. I think my personal experience and belief is that those technologies, while promising, are A not available to us at a large enough scale at this point. B are going to be highly costly to initiate and to get up and running and, additionally, take more energy to run. I think, when we look at reforestation and restoration using trees, the most promising thing about them is that they are entirely renewable and they are entirely available to us right now, and they are something that is, as I've mentioned before, very analog and lo-fi. Anybody can collect a seed, anybody can start growing trees in their own backyard, anybody can contribute to the larger supply of seedling supply and, ultimately, restoration, and I think, by way of numbers, there are a lot of different things, more activities that we as humans can start to take in order to mitigate some of the carbon that we're producing.

Blaine Pearson: 11:06

I mean, we know a lot has to do with food. Certainly, that's probably one of the most important places to focus our energy. But I think when you look at ecology and you look at land and how land is being used, adding trees to landscape and restoring native habitats not just forests but also grasslands and others is a hugely possible and hugely impactful way to take action. So things like tree intercropping, restoration of tropical forests, so things like the Amazon temperate forest restoration, development of tree plantations in degraded lands all of those things, when combined, are really effective and really efficient and immediate ways that we can get started on sequestering carbon. So I could dive into all kinds of specifically nuanced numbers, but I think this is really a question of what we can do now with what we have efficiently and effectively, and trees, I believe, are one of those most ultimate and tangible opportunities.

Ryan Grant Little: 12:11

Yeah, I mean it's a fair point. These are all questions of and and not, or Exactly. You emphasized the importance of native trees. You mentioned native trees a few times. I wonder what, if you could explain kind of the importance of this? I know that in a more globalized world we have invasive species of plants that are affecting different ecosystems in negative ways. Can you just talk about why native trees? What are the kind of ecological benefits of planting trees that are native to their habitat versus ones that come from somewhere else?

Blaine Pearson: 12:41

So it's a great question. I think it's one that is really healthy for us to start talking about native trees, native plants, what they mean to us as people and certainly to the ecosystems in which we live and we thrive. Trees are generally one of the larger plants out there. They are huge contributors and supporters of biodiversity in any landscape in which they exist. So ensuring that native trees, ones that are adapted to the local environment and not only to the conditions of the local environment, but also to the interplay of all of this the animal life and wildlife and plant life that live within that web are really, really valuable, and I think maybe I can give you an example of how this can work and why native trees are more important and more valuable than invasives or non-natives.

Blaine Pearson: 13:33

I'm here in Toronto in Canada, and we have a beautiful ravine system that surrounds our city. Our ravine system has been invaded by a species of tree called a Norway maple, and many people who know about Canada know that the maple leaf is our national symbol. A Norway maple, however, is an invasive species, has come from Europe and has invaded our ravines. So, while our ravines look really healthy and beautiful and lush and green in the summer. They are currently in the process of dying because this very successful plant called the Norway maple has come in and it has completely thrown off balance the entire ecosystem. And how it's done this is that a Norway maple because it's not from here and it is ecologically adapted to survive in another climate leafs out earlier in the season than the native maples from Canada. So, okay, you think that's not such a big deal. The leaves come out a bit earlier. But here's the trickle down. Here's how that impacts the rest of the ecosystem.

Blaine Pearson: 14:35

So a Norway maple gets planted in the ravine.

Blaine Pearson: 14:38

It leafs out sooner than the native species.

Blaine Pearson: 14:41

Those leaves cover up the forest floor, which then limits the ability of all of the spring ephemeral, the early season plants that grow out of the ground and service all kinds of insects and pollinators and small mammals.

Blaine Pearson: 14:57

It limits those spring ephemeral's ability to grow and because those spring ephemeral don't grow, all of those pollinators in that whole ecosystem that supports a bunch of pollination elsewhere in the ecosystem begins to fall apart. And when that begins to fall apart I mean we all know this trickle down or this knock on effect, but it has much wider impacts. And because the rest of the ecosystem is dying and nothing is coming up underneath those Norway maples and their seeds are much more vigorous. They have taken over and spread all throughout the ravines and while they look quote unquote healthy, everything else is dead. So I think that's a really kind of pointy an example of how an invasive species can impact an ecosystem, and I think that kind of thing is happening on a large scale in ecosystems across the landscape around the world, and I think it's something that people need to be more aware of. And you know, when you see a healthy looking landscape that's green and lush, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's supporting the biodiversity, that it needs to or that it should.

Ryan Grant Little: 17:04

Interesting.

Blaine Pearson: 17:04

And I think these two things go hand in hand. Biodiversity and native species and healthy ecosystems are dependent on both of those things coming together.

Ryan Grant Little: 17:14

It's funny you say Norway, because the only thing I know about seeds basically is that there's this vault called the Svalbard I had to Google it Svalbard global seed vault in Norway, way, way up in the north I think it's like the farthest north place that you can get. A commercial flight was why they decided to put it there and they have more than a million seed samples and they have them stored at minus 18 or something like that. The goal is to keep them from extinction, basically, so preserving biodiversity in a vault. And you know, I think we think a lot about animal species when we think of extinction, but maybe less so about tree species. How vulnerable are tree species to extinction?

Blaine Pearson: 17:56

It's a really good question because I think, as we we know and as I've just discussed, like all of these pieces of the biodiversity puzzle fit together. So certainly, yes, animal species are connected to tree species and as we're seeing a collapse in biodiversity, and particularly for animals and insects and pollinators, we're also seeing that similar collapse in tree species. So, globally, a third of tree species are marked at risk, so 33 percent of the species of trees on earth are at risk. Here in Canada we've got 24 percent of our tree species that are at risk. Most of those are in southern Ontario and southern BC.

Blaine Pearson: 18:39

But it's alarming, right? Because losing these species means that we begin to lose entire ecosystems and when we start to see the again, this knock on effect and this interrelation, entire, you know webs start to dissipate and break apart and ultimately die. So that's another reason why, with squirrel, we focused on native tree seed, because we recognize that is a building block in a cornerstone of a healthy ecosystem. So ensuring that we preserve and conserve native tree seed ensures that we help support the ecosystems and ecosystem services that support wildlife as well as other plant life.

Ryan Grant Little: 19:22

And it has been devastated this past summer with multiple I mean hundreds or maybe thousands of wildfires stretching from Nova Scotia, Quebec, all the way west to British Columbia. It's been absolutely devastating. And I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about kind of the state of play in Canada right now, you know, in terms of people's attitudes toward climate change, in terms of some of the interventions that are happening maybe in the kind of climate tech, in the climate tech space there. Just, yeah, maybe set the stage a little bit about what's happening in Canada.

Blaine Pearson: 19:54

Yeah, I mean, I think this has been a really sort of eyeopening year for people all around the world. I think we're. You know, as we sink deeper into the tangible aspects of this crisis, it becomes much more real for us on an individual human level. Certainly the wildfires that we've experienced in Canada, all across Canada. There were more than 6000 wildfires here this year. I couldn't quote to you exactly the amount of landscape that was affected, but it was huge. Many lives were lost, many people were impacted in terms of having to evacuate. It became really real.

Blaine Pearson: 20:28

I think, you know, for all of the darkness and the sort of hardship that has been experienced, there's also the flip side to great work that's underway and that's kind of pushing us forward and allowing us to see where we can go from a solution standpoint. You know, I know, that here in Canada we've got a program called 2 billion trees initiative that our federal government has pledged to plant 2 billion trees by the year 2030. So that's a very active file within our federal government. Lots of amazing work happening there to get more trees in the ground across the country and to support the expansion of the supply chain. There's also really great work being done. We have you mentioned Svalbard earlier. We have a tree seed bank here in Canada called the National Tree Seed Centre. It's based out in New Brunswick. They're doing all kinds of incredible work to support and study the various species and ensure that, from a genetic standpoint, we've got the resources available to us and the seeds available to us to continue to mitigate this risk of biodiversity loss.

Blaine Pearson: 21:35

And then there's really amazing work happening here in Canada, specifically from a climate tech standpoint, around all sorts of aspects of the supply chain. I mean, squirrel is definitely playing in that very earliest phase of the supply chain with the seed piece. But there are really incredible companies out there right now doing work around carbon credits, people doing lots of cool stuff with drone planting. Telus, which is one of our national carriers, has started to put together investments across the supply chain. They've invested in a tree planting company called Shakti Trees. They've invested in a drone company called Flash Forest and another company that's doing carbon credit work and verification called Veritree. So I see that there's big investment coming from corporate players. I see that there's big investment coming from the government and I think that there are a lot of really exciting ways in which nonprofits and other community organizations are mobilizing to give people opportunities to participate, and to me that's really exciting. So, for all of this sort of darkness, there's also a lot of active work being done to mitigate the challenges.

Ryan Grant Little: 22:46

You mentioned at the beginning of our conversation that Squiirrel is funded by a global grant from Accenture. I wonder if you could just say a few words about that, just in case there are some people listening who are at the beginning of their journey as climate tech entrepreneurs and looking for funding.

Blaine Pearson: 23:02

We were very, very fortunate to receive an initial grant from Accenture to undertake the research that we did on the national seed availability.

Blaine Pearson: 23:13

From that work we were encouraged, and ultimately sort of pushed forward by Accenture, to submit a proposal for their global granting stream based off of that work and based off of the insights that we had leaned.

Blaine Pearson: 23:25

And when we did end up putting together our proposal and submitting it to Accenture, we were really excited to learn that we had won the global grant for Canada.

Blaine Pearson: 23:35

And they have been simply incredible partners to us, throwing all kinds of resources against the development not only of the technology but also the go-to-market strategy and communication support of this project.

Blaine Pearson: 23:49

They also brought in the team at Amazon Web Services or AWS to help support with some of the backend technology to support the tool.

Blaine Pearson: 23:58

That kind of exposure has been really helpful to us because it's allowed us to meet tons of new people, have exposure at larger conferences and also have some of the resources required to get something like this off the ground, because building an app is not for the faint of heart, I've learned. So having the support of a larger player and also the lent legitimacy of a name like Accenture or AWS has been really exceptional for us in terms of opening doors and allowing people to see that this is a real solution and something that has possibility in the market. So what I would say to other entrepreneurs is looking and casting a wide net across the landscape is a wise idea. Finding ways to look for public support, private support from industry, but also from the corporate world, is never a bad idea, because the more people you can bring into the fold and more places you can set at the table, I think, the more success you're going to have.

Ryan Grant Little: 25:04

Squiirrel is S-Q-U-I-I-R-R-E-L. What's the best place to find you online, Blaine?

Blaine Pearson: 25:11

You can find us at squirrelcom and yes, thank you for pointing that out there are purposefully two eyes in Squirrel. Partially that's a happy accident. That allows us to have easier access to that URL, but I think we've also had some fun with it, because two eyes are better than one when you're looking for seed, and we've also learned that there's a way of seeing that incorporates Indigenous knowledge and wisdom. That's called two-eyed seeing, where you look with Indigenous wisdom at the landscape and at the earth and you combine that with the other eye of seeing of sort of Western civilization. You bring those two pieces together. It's called two-eyed seeing, and I think it's something that we are actively working to embrace in our approach, recognizing the value and wisdom that is brought to table by Indigenous peoples around the world when it comes to restoring and healing our earth.

Ryan Grant Little: 26:08

That's a great place to leave it. Blaine, Thanks a lot for this introduction to the world of seeds. Thank you, Nice to meet you. Thanks for listening to another Climate Tech podcast. It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello at climatetechpodcom. Find me, Ryan Grant Little, on LinkedIn. I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye for now.